(Name-mce) ListServ City Vents Anger at Illegal Immigrants

Wed Jul 26 15:12:42 EDT 2006

When you are hired in this country, in many if not all instances, an I-9 form must be completed which requires three forms of identification that proves you have the "right to work in the United States." If you fill out a job application, this is one of the questions asked: Do you have the right to work in the United States. 

So, carrying papers around all the time (which we do as identification anyway, especially since September 11th), and which many of us have to do while we are at work, is not too much of an issue or a hindrance. We are also "relative free in daily life." However, when we are required to (for work, to acquire a passport, to get a license of some sort) prove who we are and, yes, where we came from.

Anne Patricia Dobsobn

-----Original Message-----
>From: Sherry Rocha <srocha at uiuc.edu>
>Sent: Jul 26, 2006 10:00 AM
>To: NAME-MCE - National Association for Multicultural Education Email Discussion Group <Name-mce at nameorg.org>
>Subject: Re: (Name-mce) ListServ City Vents Anger at Illegal Immigrants
>
>
>
>
>This brings up the issue that everyone is forgetting about.  If these laws 
>are passed all over how will anyone know if someone is legal or 
>not?  Everyone will have to carry papers or something to prove.  This is 
>not a "it pertains to them"  issue.  It effects everyone.  If someone does 
>not want to break the law when hiring or renting etc they will have to find 
>out for sure.  Does everyone here want to carry papers to prove you are 
>legal?  My son just returned from China where he observed they are more 
>free than we are in daily life.
>Sherry Rocha
>At 06:17 PM 7/25/2006, you wrote:
>
>
>
>>I thought the issue had to do with legality vs. illegality which can
>>only be determined by law. Is it about the law or isn't it? We have no
>>way of knowing if a person is here "illegally" unless we have access to
>>the outcome of a decision made by an immigration judge (if found guilty
>>the person is deported and no longer here)or to the signed voluntary
>>departure agreement (the person is deported and no longer here). If
>>there has been no hearing or voluntary departure agreement, then a
>>person has not been proven to be in violation of the law by an impartial
>>judge. I do understand that our world views on this issue are influenced
>>by privilege and historical experience. Did you know that the US
>>government deported US born citizens of Mexican ancestry in the 1930's
>>and again the 1950's? Do you know of any US born citizens of European
>>ancestry that were deported "back" to Europe? Let's get real here -- it
>>has everything to do with national origin. Do you see any fences being
>>built along our northern border?
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Name-mce-bounces at nameorg.org [mailto:Name-mce-bounces at nameorg.org]
>>On Behalf Of Anne Patricia Dobson
>>Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 12:40 PM
>>To: NAME-MCE - National Association for Multicultural
>>EducationEmailDiscussion Group
>>Subject: Re: (Name-mce) ListServ City Vents Anger at Illegal Immigrants
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Isabel. . .I am not speaking to what any person is entitled to UNDER the
>>law. I
>>realize that anyone in this country -- any human being, if you will --
>>is entitled
>>to equal protection under the law. However, blatant disregard for the
>>laws of a
>>country -- and entering the country illegally with the knowledge that it
>>is illegal
>>to do so -- does not give you the right or PRIVILEGE of being considered
>>anything
>>BUT an "illegal." PEOPLE HAVE A CHOICE. Yes, they do. They may have to
>>choose to live outside the law to attempt to gain a greater good, but
>>people have
>>a choice. The minute tentacles of "what if" or "because this is so"
>>do not negate the facts of what situation people are in.
>>
>>I am not referring to an entire culture -- Hispanic or other -- as
>>"illegals."
>>I am referring to those individuals from WHATEVER COUNTRY come into
>>America without
>>benefit of following the prescribed rules and regulation.
>>
>>If I went to another country illegally -- without benefit of passport or
>>visa --
>>then I, IN THAT COUNTRY, would be al illegal alien. However, not all
>>people related
>>to me -- by blood or culture -- would be "illegals."
>>
>>Anne
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>> >From: "Vazquez, Isabel" <isabel.vazquez at lausd.net>
>> >Sent: Jul 25, 2006 3:14 PM
>> >To: Anne Patricia Dobson <apdobson at ix.netcom.com>, NAME-MCE - National
>>Association for Multicultural Education EmailDiscussion Group
>><Name-mce at nameorg.org>
>> >Subject: RE: (Name-mce) ListServ City Vents Anger at Illegal Immigrants
>> >
>> >In addition to defining the basis of US Citizenship and the rights of
>>US
>> >citizens, the 14th Amendment extends rights to all human beings who
>>find
>> >themselves in this country as follows "...nor shall any State deprive
>> >any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
>> >nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of
>> >the laws." Only an immigration judge can find an individual in
>>violation
>> >of US immigration law after a hearing in which all facts are presented.
>> >Only the affected individual has the authority to waive that right by
>> >consenting to voluntary deportation without a hearing. Without one of
>> >these two occurring there is no legal basis to assign guilt
>>(presumption
>> >of innocence until proven guilty principle) and define a person as an
>> >"illegal alien." More importantly and regardless of intent, defining an
>> >individual or entire populations as "illegals" is dehumanizing -- a
>> >person may commit an illegal act but the person is not illegal.
>> >Isabel
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: Name-mce-bounces at nameorg.org
>>[mailto:Name-mce-bounces at nameorg.org]
>> >On Behalf Of Anne Patricia Dobson
>> >Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 7:52 AM
>> >To: NAME-MCE - National Association for Multicultural Education
>> >EmailDiscussion Group
>> >Subject: Re: (Name-mce) ListServ City Vents Anger at Illegal Immigrants
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >I may be putting my foot in the "Devil's Advocate" waters, but are
>>those
>> >
>> >that disagree with the CONCEPT of illegal aliens disagreeing with the
>> >idea
>> >of immigrants or disagreeing with the idea that they are ILLEGAL. Yes,
>> >America is a country of immigrants. Even the first people apparently
>> >immigrated over the land bridge that connected us to Europe. However,
>> >since
>> >we have become a nation and established LAWS we have a LEGAL WAY of
>> >doing
>> >something. Not only coming into this country but in behaviors when we
>> >are
>> >here.
>> >
>> >My mother is a first generation American.
>> >
>> >My grandparents came to this country through Ellis Island.
>> >
>> >They went to school and became citizens.
>> >
>> >Though they spoke their native language, and though my mother's first
>> >language was NOT American English, the whole family LEARNED American
>> >English. This, they saw, was to their own and their children's
>>benefits.
>> >
>> >They did not give up their culture, or their identity, or whatever else
>> >you
>> >think you may give up by learning another language.
>> >
>> >As to the crochet that illegal aliens are doing work that Americans
>>will
>> >not
>> >do. . .I find that argument extremely offensive. Does that mean we
>> >should
>> >not have done away with slavery because there were, after all, jobs
>>that
>> >
>> >Blacks would do that Whites would not? Does that meant that we should,
>> >by
>> >not objecting to illegal immigrants, agree with the fact that it is OK
>> >to
>> >put people to work doing sub-human (if "we" won't do it then it must be
>>
>> >sub-human because, after all, we are only human beings) work because
>> >they
>> >are illegals? That by KEEPING THEM ILLEGALS we have, in effect, given
>> >them
>> >the privilege of being slaves we do not own but only control?
>> >
>> >I really believe that we need to see this as an issue of ILLEGALITY and
>> >not
>> >an issue of anti-immigration.
>> >
>> >Why is it so much better to keep a group of people ILLEGAL than to work
>> >to
>> >change immigration laws or make them "legal" in two countries so they
>> >can go
>> >back and forth to see their families?
>> >
>> >I know, too, that there is a problem with NOT requiring people to speak
>> >the
>> >language of the country that they immigrate to: it helps to keep them
>> >illiterate in two languages and in two worlds. Again, much better to
>> >CONTROL
>> >a group of people that way.
>> >
>> >As for the last sentence in the article, I believe that the reporter
>>got
>> >it
>> >wrong. It is not anti-Hispanic at all. She is misinterpreting the
>> >direction
>> >that all such argument should go. IT IS ANTI ILLEGALITY.
>> >
>> >ANNE PATRICIA DOBSON
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >>From: Bertha Mo <mob at potsdam.edu>
>> >>Sent: Jul 24, 2006 8:27 AM
>> >>To: NAME-MCE - National Association for Multicultural Education Email
>> >>      Discussion Group <Name-mce at nameorg.org>
>> >>Cc: name-mce at nameorg.org
>> >>Subject: Re: (Name-mce) ListServ City Vents Anger at Illegal
>>Immigrants
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>The majority of people in the US are immigrants.  Due to restrictive
>> >>immigrant laws, many of our ancestors came here illegally. And many of
>> >our
>> >>ancestors were forced to flee to America because our way of life was
>> >>deemed illegal.
>> >>
>> >>The Bible says, "He/She who is blameless shall cast the first
>>stone..."
>> >>for students who are on the right.  I am sure we can find sayings for
>> >>those who are objecting from the left...
>> >>
>> >>Best,
>> >>
>> >>Bertie Mo, Ph.D., MPH
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I teach Communication in a midwestern university and I see these
>> >>> attitudes from students.....what can we do to change this?  I've
>> >hosted
>> >>> class discussions and we focus on stereotyping and discrimination.
>> >>> There must be more we can do!
>> >>>
>> >>>>>> khyati at fdu.edu 07/22/06 1:33 PM >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>
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